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 Post subject: Last Campaign - Discussion of campaign missions
PostPosted: Wed Dec 24, 2003 3:05 pm 
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Ok, finally won the first mission of the "Last Campaign" which I thought was impossible but wasn't - just almost impossible :) But this one is a killer . . .

First off, I'm on a large island where I have three territories (only 2 revenue producing) while the enemy has one open, and two undisclosed (not that it matters, he discloses them the first turn). Over all number of units before the disclosure are about even, except that he had tanks where I have LAVs. Plus with his reinforcements from the disclosed provinces he's going to heavily outnumber him. Yet I am supposed to go on the offensive and conquer him. But it gets worse :)

There's a second continent that I have just invaded. I'm supposed to conquer the territory, all the while beating off an enemy force attacking from another territory! Of course I'm massively outnumbered in the province I'm trying to conquer, forget about the the guys counterattacking me.

That said, I do have 2 landing craft with some reserves, tanks and LAVs that I can use. I also have two battleships plus a carrier, and 3 bombers in one of my cities. Plus 3 empty landing craft.

I've tried fighting on both continents, but no go I think. My LAVs are outmatched by his tanks on the big continent, and my "invasion" force is far to weak to stand off his forces, even with full support of my air force and battleships. Any hints out there?

My thought is this - abandon the continent I just invaded. Load them up on transports and take them and my reinforecments already afloat and go to the main continent. My air power and battleships should be able to sweep one coast (call it the east coast) and keep me in good shape there, while i move my reinforcements to the center and left coast. That should balance out his reinforcments from his disclosed allies and make it even, and hopefully the battleships and airpower will tilt the balance.

Then when I've conquered that continent, build up, and invade again the continent I was supposed to invade in the first place. The territories are all coastal so with support of my battleships and carrier, it should just be a matter of time to march down the coast and take the whole thing.

That's my thought anyway. Just wondered if anyone's played and won this battle in this campaign.

Grifman


Last edited by Grifman on Fri Dec 26, 2003 3:53 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Thu Dec 25, 2003 4:05 pm 
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This mission seems to be really difficult. So here is replay file played by author of this campaign :-) It's not me - I've failed to complete this mission from the first try :-)


Attachments:
Last Campaign, Step 2.rep [59.62 KiB]
Downloaded 660 times
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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu Dec 25, 2003 9:37 pm 
I'll take a look, but I did it my way, which appears to be SOP in this game. It seems if I follow the mission suggestions, I lose :) I'll download this to see what the author did - maybe it will help me on others down the road.

That said, what I did is what I suggested above. Taking the newly invaded island is impossible for me. I embarked all the troops I could, plus the reinforcements already afloat, and then reinforced my troops on the main island. The reinforcements stiffened my line:

1) My 3 rocket launchers backed by my mechs pretty much made the enemy into scrap metal once the additional tanks and LAVs reinforced my line.

2) The battleships kept my "east" flank clear

3) My bombers kept the enemy rocket launchers outside of range - soon, they were all he had left on the main island.

Once I conquered that island, I used the indemnity funds to purchase another carrier, and enough bombers for 4 for each carrier, plus another battleship. My battleships swept the coast of the other island to prep it for invasion. I then landed my troops on the NW corner, established a perimeter, and waited while the enemy came into range of my RL's, bombers, battleships and mechs. It was a piece of cake as the enemy's ranged units were easily wiped out by my bombers, and his tanks and LAVs were crushed before they got into range.

I would have never won though if the strategic AI had been better. It never built any bombers or ships to challenge me - it never threatened invasion like the scenario suggests they might - and I know it had the resources, because it did try one very sneaky thing that showed it did. When I sent my battleships to clear the coast, once they did their first bombardment, I was shocked when the enemy in one turn must have added 20 new units! Apparently it assumed an invasion was happening, and it wanted to surprise me with a reception committee. I would have been in trouble if I was invading and thinking it's force was half of what it really was. But the AI would have been better off investing in 3 or 4 battleships and some bombers - that would have rendered my invasion difficult if not impossible.

However, given the odds you get in the scenarios, which seem so uneven and unrealistic, I'll take the dumber AI. I'd much prefer more even forces with a better AI - but the odds are usually so uneven. The tactical AI is good, it's the strategic AI which needs some work - but that's true in most games. This one is still pretty good at least on the battlefield.

That said, it seems like I move from "impossible" to "impossible" scenario. The next also seems impossible and I see no easy or trick way out. You have a defensive line in the west with defense towers, another defense line south of that, then you are to attack in the east.

But at your defense line in the west, the enemy has 3 RL plus 3 or 4 mortars, and lots of LAVs. It's easy for them to simply swarm the line and eventually take it out. The defense line running south gets swarmed, but you can eventually take out the enemy. You have a real fight trying to break through in the east, but I can usually do that.

The problem is you just don't have enough forces. In the east province you are trying to invade, once you defeat the initial enemy forces, there are also 2 defense towers, and the enemy rapidly reinforces them with 2 mechs, and half a dozen or so tanks from the north - that's almost as big a force as what you have left to move north with. While you are fighting through that force, the enemy force from the east approaches - you end up being squeezed from both sides.

I don't see anyway to pull a rabbit out of the hat on this one. You are just outnumbered, the enemy has heavy production, yours is very limited, you are just outproduced. Obviously, you have to somehow get north and seize the enemy production areas, but I just don't see how to do that.

Unless . . . perhaps buying some naval transports - you start with one - and loading up your troops and moving them north - you don't seem to be intended to keep your territories since your production is limited and the enemy gets no indemnity from taking them it seems. It seems perhaps that the key is to rapidly seize the enemy production areas? Maybe that will work? But I don't know if you can clear the enemy province of guerillas before reinforcements arrive so you can get the indemnity. Maybe I'll try that - but that's the only trick I can think of right now.

Grifman


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PostPosted: Thu Dec 25, 2003 10:14 pm 
That replay was interesting. It was a near run thing, moving units between one island and the other putting out fires, but it worked - he never tried taking the two northern territories, but I guess I am just more methodical. One thing I noticed that I had not used before was transports to move your units around beyond their normal range. Have to use that going forward. His units were alot more mobile using that ability.

That said, I noticed the replay doing something I don't think you can do. I saw him load a unit in a land transport, then load that transport in a naval transport - I don't think you can do that? Was he playing with a pre-final version that allowed that?

Grifman


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Fri Dec 26, 2003 2:44 am 
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grifman try thinking a bit :D
first you load tank into truck
move it to coast
load tank from truck to naval transport
then move truck itself to naval transport
what's the problem?


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Fri Dec 26, 2003 12:26 pm 
I did think about that and consider it, but that is not what the replay shows. I see a transport get off of a landing craft, drive several hexes onto the beach/land, then a tanks get out of it. Out no point did I see the tank get out of the landing craft and then into the transport, and then the transport move. Unless the replay skipped that step, what you suggested did not happen. Perhaps you should look instead of think? :lol:

Grifman


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 Post subject: Last campaign step 3 - victory conditions?
PostPosted: Fri Dec 26, 2003 1:55 pm 
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Ok, this scenario's (Last Campaign, Step 3) victory condition are confusing. Up front you are told to hold the enemy on the left, and attack on the right, drive through Mazurka province, then take New China, which should result in the total occupation of the continent.

Well, this was seeming impossible to me but I was fooling around with different strategies. I pulled my units back into a corner, then sent an amphibious assault group up to Beautland province in the far north of the continent - it was never mentioned in the briefings.

Well, I took Beautland and lo and behold, I get a splash screen telling me I won the scenario! Huh, I didn't take either of the two provinces I was told to!? The scenario seems screwed up - you can't win it (I don't think) under the conditions stated - but you don't have to - it seems you just need to take one of the enemy provinces and you win!?

Anyone taken a look at this? Thanks.

Grifman


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Fri Dec 26, 2003 2:31 pm 
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Anonymous wrote:
I did think about that and consider it, but that is not what the replay shows. I see a transport get off of a landing craft, drive several hexes onto the beach/land, then a tanks get out of it. Out no point did I see the tank get out of the landing craft and then into the transport, and then the transport move. Unless the replay skipped that step, what you suggested did not happen. Perhaps you should look instead of think? :lol:

Grifman


Mrakobes is right. When a Tank moves from Transport to another Transport, you donґt see that in the replay. (Where should the Tank appear? Mid-air? :lol: )


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Fri Dec 26, 2003 3:43 pm 
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Ok, I get it now, the landing craft was carrying a tank and a transporter, it unloaded the transporter, then loaded the tank into the transporter. My bad :)

Grifman

That said, Step 4 of the campaign was actually easy. You had to invade an enemy province (and finally the force number and structure was to my advantage) while fending off an enemy relief fleet (again, I had the advantage). Nice to have a break from all the "impossible" missions :)


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PostPosted: Fri Dec 26, 2003 8:29 pm 
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Ok, finished up mission 5. This was the second easiest so far. You have a main continent where the enemy is holding out behind a line of plasma towers that are impossible to breach with the forces you have at hand. You have to take three provinces on another continent to get the resources, mainly carriers and air power, to allow you to take the first continent.

You have seized an airfield, but the area is surrounded and you will eventually lose it. You have to hold it long enough to take a neighboring province where you can transfer you airforce to. I moved a landing craft of LAVs up next to the airfield, along with one of my battleships, and pulled back my LAVs and mortars to surround the airfield. Between my bombers, mortars, and BBs, I was able to keep the enemy out of the city for a good while.

Meanwhile in the south, my landing force came on with the support of another battleship. It was tough going at first, as the guerilla forces plus newly disclosed enemy forces kept me bottled up and I couldn't deploy my rocket launchers. However, I eventually made some room, got my launchers deployed (along with a couple of additional moved from the main continent) and took out the enemy. He only had LAVs and mortars, but there were alot of them. I took his city with maybe one or two turns to spare.

I moved my airforce to this city, then used the indemnity and production to build up some more units. My rocket lauchers, bombers and now both battleships crushed his counter offensive, then I moved north. I also built a carrier and more bombers. Took his two provinces with little difficulty. Used the indemnities and production to build a couple of more carriers and more bombers. Then I moved back to the main continent, and took out his entire force either by shore bombardment or from the air. I landed on to capture the two provincial capitals.

Pretty easy compared to some of the others. But peaking at the next one, it looks to be a real slugfest!

Grifman


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 Post subject: Re: Last Campaign - Discussion of campaign missions
PostPosted: Fri Aug 31, 2012 3:49 am 
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Thanks for your replay of the last campaign mission 2 I'm taking a look at it, I'm onto the mission now, I first bought MAN and decided to honnor this game as it's predecessor so I brought a copy, otherwise is it acceptable to sacrifice the northen offense to take the south island?

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