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 Post subject: 2nd Clan War Progress Update
PostPosted: Tue Aug 31, 2004 6:28 am 
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Sea Wolf

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As hopefully anyone interested knows we are working on the 2nd clan war.

Most of the software and website have been completed enough for us to begin testing the rules to try and make it as fair as possible.

We use the clan's logo to show things on the map so any clan which has no clan logo (if it says ur clan tag on the current battlecontrol current games table) then you need to create a logo 24x24 and send it to us in gif format to play in the 2nd wars.

We will post more information here as we decide things but for now we're looking to start the 2nd war within a month (hopefully)

I'm after lots of artwork to replace headings and links so anyone who would like to help give me a shout

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Have fun, that's an order! If you win even better!!
Clan War Site: http://www.massiveassault.com/clans/nwo/ClanWar/

Dragonshard Fan Site: http://www.rpgplanet.com/dragonshard/


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 Post subject: a few thoughts about the clan wars
PostPosted: Fri Sep 03, 2004 6:47 am 
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Rather than make it planets and etc why not straight out battles. Keep it simple, no dollars, no assigning sides, that is all random. Makes them easier to play and you can have multiple ones going on all the time. And it might make it more attractive to non- clanmembers to join a clan.

IGE vs DAWGS of WAR The challenging clan names the planet map. Each participating clan member plays two games on that map. Top number of wins means one clan defeated another.

If someone misses the three day mark to turn in his her turn -- they forfeit that game. No muss no fuss. If they are going to be away -- then they should tell their opponent and moderator. They get one pass if they miss again, they forfeit. If everyone in the clan forfeits, they lose.

You can ally with another clan so you can borrow their members (if wiling to become mercenaries and fight for you. Imagine if the 7th could bring Tiger or Pitor to the battleground.

These few rules give you a lot more dynamic, less frustrating experience

AND FOR THE DEVELOPERS

Why not create a CLAN WAR Planet. Where you can have two or more members of a clan attack or defend, each having their own country against the other clan. -- THINK of the possibilities

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"...."you do not truly know someone until you fight them.


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 Post subject: Re: a few thoughts about the clan wars
PostPosted: Fri Sep 03, 2004 7:25 am 
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Sea Wolf
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Korvack/Stewart wrote:
Rather than make it planets and etc why not straight out battles. Keep it simple, no dollars, no assigning sides, that is all random. Makes them easier to play and you can have multiple ones going on all the time. And it might make it more attractive to non- clanmembers to join a clan.


What you are suggesting is more of a tournament then a team level strategic war. It sounds like what you are looking for is something like the MA World Team Championship, a tournament that was recently announced. It also sounds much like the Little Clan War that has recently ended.

I know that the Clan War as it has played out has been far from perfect. I feel, however, that we have learned a great deal from the challenges we faced in moderating battles between over 60 players in 6 clans. We feel that the next war will be that much better.

Maybe I should explain what we're trying to do with the Clan Wars in general. Massive Assault is a game that is unmatched in ingenuity and strategic depth, but it is limited to the competition between 2 people. So what we are doing is trying to add an additional layer of depth to an already great game by adding teamwork and camaraderie to the picture.

In order for this to be a team oriented game following the same pattern that Massive Assault uses, we have chosen to focus on allowing team-level strategy. What good is a clan if you can't work together to overcome a foe?

Certainly, there is room for groups of players who just love this game and want a set of friends to play this. But others like the moderators of this war would like to take that same friendship, and add to that common goals and strategic planning that all can participate in, regardless of skill.

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Founder of The New World Order, and moderator for the Andromeda Clan War.

NWO website:
http://www.freewebs.com/massiveassault-nwo/index.htm

Clan War website:
http://www.massiveassault.com/clans/nwo/ClanWar


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Fri Sep 03, 2004 7:25 am 
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Sea Wolf

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the idea u've suggest isn't a war it's just a league/tournament. And doesn't encourage much teamwork beyond trying to make sure each person get's the fights they want with the wars and usually with more than 1 fight per planet/country each win/loss can have huge effects on how the clan is doing.

As for your 3 day limit we will most likely be using that in the enxt war, all games will have a 3 day limit and it's up to the opponents to end the game (like in the summer tournament).

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Have fun, that's an order! If you win even better!!
Clan War Site: http://www.massiveassault.com/clans/nwo/ClanWar/

Dragonshard Fan Site: http://www.rpgplanet.com/dragonshard/


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Fri Sep 03, 2004 9:44 am 
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Still sounds a little too complex to be readily accessible to the majority.
But that is just my opinion.

What about:?

"You can ally with another clan so you can borrow their members (if wiling to become mercenaries and fight for you. Imagine if the 7th could bring Tiger or Pitor to the battleground. "

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Fri Sep 03, 2004 10:00 am 
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Sea Wolf
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Korvack/Stewart wrote:
Still sounds a little too complex to be readily accessible to the majority.
But that is just my opinion.


If there is exessive complexity, it is because we can't explain our rules well enough. I'm sure anyone that enjoys Massive Assault has the Wargaming mentality, at least enough to be able to grasp the concepts we're trying to promote.

I think people are turned off more by the responsibility required to be a part of a clan. It takes a little effort to join a clan and keep up with a war. But we hope there are enough people with enough passion for this game to try to take it to the next level. To fight for a cause, and feel the thrill of being part of a team.

Clans are much more time-intensive than tourneys. All you have to do for a tourney is sign up and play your games. With these clan wars, you have to search through the clan list, choose the clan that best fits your ideals, request to be accepted as a member, play some battles with them for them to determine your skill level, and then communicate with them as war battles are assigned. Hopefully some that we add on would also like to take a part of the leadership effort to keep the war smoothly running and give input on the decisions involved.

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Founder of The New World Order, and moderator for the Andromeda Clan War.

NWO website:
http://www.freewebs.com/massiveassault-nwo/index.htm

Clan War website:
http://www.massiveassault.com/clans/nwo/ClanWar


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Fri Sep 03, 2004 11:52 am 
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about making a planet where more that 2 players can participate - the developers already explained in several threads that it is technically very difficult to make and will be very cumbersome to play if sevaral players are in different time zones.About everything else - i agree with Maelstrom and Enforcer- what Korvack offer is another sort of league\tournament and (while i am going to participate in team tourney) - the meaning of clanwar is adding the global strategy element above just the common tactics..
if we do not have blobal strategy element then we can just play common games and no need for clanwar.

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 Post subject: agreed
PostPosted: Fri Sep 03, 2004 12:00 pm 
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strategy is the name of the game :)
Thank you to all your help gents in getting the clan war going.

Stewart, have you read the ridiculously long threads on clan war improvements? Lots of your good points are covered and answered.

Bring on a new war :)

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 Post subject: Re: a few thoughts about the clan wars
PostPosted: Fri Sep 03, 2004 7:41 pm 
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Maelstrom wrote:
Certainly, there is room for groups of players who just love this game and want a set of friends to play this. But others like the moderators of this war would like to take that same friendship, and add to that common goals and strategic planning that all can participate in, regardless of skill.

Hmm. "all can participate in, regardless of skill". I disagree. The clanwar consists of one-to-one battles. And if one clan has more skilled players than another, it will more often (or even always) win. Imagine clan consisting of 5 Rocklizards and another one consisting of 5 newbies. Rocklizard's clan will win every battle, earn more money and have great superiority. And these 5 newbies are joined together just to have fun, but they are constantly losing and therefore have no fun from war. Even political unions with other clans don't help.
So the clan members skills determine everything. And IMHO clanleader task who wants to win and not to lose is to invite to clan only top skilled players. Or at least restrict participation of unskilled members in main Clan War. Because Clan War favours only top skilled team. The clan that selects players regardless of their skill is doomed to lose.
This all makes Clan War is more like elite club for top players than open to all regardless of skill. And since top players number is always limited, Clan War can't be popular and massive by definition :( .


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 Post subject: Re: a few thoughts about the clan wars
PostPosted: Fri Sep 03, 2004 9:40 pm 
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Sea Wolf
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Norat wrote:
Maelstrom wrote:
Certainly, there is room for groups of players who just love this game and want a set of friends to play this. But others like the moderators of this war would like to take that same friendship, and add to that common goals and strategic planning that all can participate in, regardless of skill.

Hmm. "all can participate in, regardless of skill". I disagree. The clanwar consists of one-to-one battles. And if one clan has more skilled players than another, it will more often (or even always) win. Imagine clan consisting of 5 Rocklizards and another one consisting of 5 newbies. Rocklizard's clan will win every battle, earn more money and have great superiority. And these 5 newbies are joined together just to have fun, but they are constantly losing and therefore have no fun from war. Even political unions with other clans don't help.
So the clan members skills determine everything. And IMHO clanleader task who wants to win and not to lose is to invite to clan only top skilled players. Or at least restrict participation of unskilled members in main Clan War. Because Clan War favours only top skilled team. The clan that selects players regardless of their skill is doomed to lose.
This all makes Clan War is more like elite club for top players than open to all regardless of skill. And since top players number is always limited, Clan War can't be popular and massive by definition :( .

In the current war, this is certainly true...that clan of 5 Rocklizards would probably exterminate the 5 newbies in a month. This is why we're looking for ways to give weaker players some sort of advantages when the Second War finally starts.

I seriously doubt it's possible to make it so those 5 newbies can beat 5 Rocklizards, but hopefully we can make it so that 2 newbies and 3 Tigers stand a chance against those 5 Rocklizards.

Edit: Additonally, the format we're working on would make it much easier to create seperate wars for weaker players, much like the Little Clan War was.

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sat Sep 04, 2004 4:26 am 
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Sea Wolf

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quite a few clans have realised that the skilled players only approach excludes alot of the other players (when skilled means u have a slight chance to beating tiger/rocklizard) so quite a few are recruiting less skilled players, and more clans have seen this and are doing the same to hopefully create some even clan amtches between less skilled players.

I do understand how quite a few players feel when they look at alot fo the clan's players lists, it's like humm well i don't have much cahnce vs any of these players.. oh well might have been fun but there's no point even trying to join 1.

Well I can tell you now that FOR recruit anyone as long as they are willing to put the time in. And form the players lists at least 2 other clans are more than willing to take newer players too.

Like Artanis said above we are designing the 2nd war to be multiple smaller wars between 3-5 clans in each war. And we don't see a way for the larger clans to include all fo their players in each war (yet to be tested) so we're looking at clans dividing up into squads for lack of a better work, with the better squad going on to fight tiger etc while the lower squad hopefully plays players from other clans closer to their own skill levels.

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Have fun, that's an order! If you win even better!!
Clan War Site: http://www.massiveassault.com/clans/nwo/ClanWar/

Dragonshard Fan Site: http://www.rpgplanet.com/dragonshard/


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 Post subject: me too
PostPosted: Sat Sep 04, 2004 1:45 pm 
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So clan war is for best of the best of the best of the best? SIR!

That is ridiculous. Just because Tiger trashes me each time we play doesn't mean I shouldn't play tiger. Heck I held him to 15 rounds in tournament play and I doubt I ever got that far in any game with him.

Hey not every clan can be the TGE -- the whole point is to collaborate to share tactics that worked and hey if we go up against the best, we do the best we can... so we lose what? Bragging rights?

Dawgs of War will take anyone, not because we want to win clan wars, but because in the process of playing clan wars we will craft the team and work together and have fun. Some people may not like that approach, that is fine, they don't have to join.

So the problem is better teams whip lesser teams -- so should everyone else in baseball should go home because the Yankees have the stars? Sorry you are not good enough you play in the children's war.

Good concept but misguided.

Make your 2ND CLAN WAR slightly lesser in scope. SUGGESTION ONE Play until one team doubles their territory. TADAA Thats the winner.

As Clans get knocked out, they take on the next clan pushed out and so on so everyone gets to play. This can be the smaller clan wars consisting of two clans or three if two clans get kicked out simultaneously.

You will have cascading clan wars... rather than arbitrary designations.


SUGGESTION TWO

IN CLAN WARS, you lose a battle you are "dead" No further games in the main clan war. Once "dead" you go to the DEAD CLAN WARS to further defend the honor and territory of your clan. So you can have two clan wars going on at the same time.

Even the best of the best of the best players can have an off game or bad position and may be eliminated.

hey these are just ideas, ya don't like them, I may not want to hear it, skip my post and read on.


Finally, I KNOW that the developers have explained how difficult it would be to have clans fighting together on the same planet, that is why no one else in a similar situation has done it before. But if other games can have multiple people playing in near real time on the same map, surely the wizards of development should be able to crack this problem for this turn based system -- some sort of internal code that only releases a game once all the turns are in -- much like the current system we have (IDEA) where until two people turn in turns you do not get a turn back.

How much more difficult is it really to expand that concept to 4 or eight people if we do it for two now. Just a suggestion from your paying public.

Again, if you do not like my ideas, have heard the same from other people, dislike me on a personal level, got a bee up your jeffries tube. Bite me doughboy, skip my posts in the future, I won't even notice you and will not be hurt.

Artanis, Enforcer, all the ghods who are toiling over the clan wars, bless you. I look forward to the next incarnation.

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sat Sep 04, 2004 2:00 pm 
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Sea Wolf

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thx for ur ideas they will be considered. Regarding the once u lose a fight u are dead idea we are using somthing simlar to that in thw new war where once u lose a fight you are dead, but clans can buy new "armies" for their players each week (costs are dependent on a variaty of factors which we are still balancing out)

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Clan War Site: http://www.massiveassault.com/clans/nwo/ClanWar/

Dragonshard Fan Site: http://www.rpgplanet.com/dragonshard/


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed Sep 08, 2004 3:36 pm 
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I think when second CW will start good and bad changes will be seen and moderators will change it.
It is still new game and every new CW will be better.
Soon will be a lot of quality players to fight in the CW,and with the good diplomacy weaker clans will have some room for attacks.


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