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PostPosted: Mon Mar 08, 2004 10:46 am 
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Well, I've had to write and rewrite my thoughts in this box.

Charging fees has always been a serious issue for me, for any game. I just really don't like paying for something I already paid for. Honestly, the only annual charging fee I pay is for my XBox LIVE subscription. And that covers every damn XBox game, not just one.

I'm just going to wait and see how all this turns out, but a subscription fee usually turns me off from a game entirely.

I do sympathize with VanO's qualms about the publishers and all, but I can only care so much before I take my own needs and wants into account. 5 bucks a month always seems like a little, but that depends on how long you really plan on playing this game for. After 3-4 years its gonna dent your wallet well over 200 bucks.
And I'm not rich. I'm a freakin' debt-laden college student! And honestly, I'm working too hard getting my college education to play MA enough to warrent $5/mo.


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PostPosted: Mon Mar 08, 2004 11:15 am 
:lol:
I wish I were as confident of the future as Icarus is.. :wink:
As for me, I'm not sure that after 3 years there'll be such a thing as MA (I hope we'll play MA3 or MA4 then :) ). I'm not sure that a dollar will cost a matchbox after 3 years. And I'm not sure what shall I do then and where shall I be myself :D.
But Icarus had already calculated everything and drawn all conclusions..

In 3-4 years you can graduate, can't you ?

Or you just can win a tournament or something else and save the money and it will be ok ! 8)


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PostPosted: Mon Mar 08, 2004 11:17 am 
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Location: Riga
(The previous message was mine)


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PostPosted: Mon Mar 08, 2004 12:24 pm 
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Pivo the Guest wrote:

I wish I were as confident of the future as Icarus is..
As for me, I'm not sure that after 3 years there'll be such a thing as MA (I hope we'll play MA3 or MA4 then ). I'm not sure that a dollar will cost a matchbox after 3 years. And I'm not sure what shall I do then and where shall I be myself .
But Icarus had already calculated everything and drawn all conclusions..

In 3-4 years you can graduate, can't you ?

Or you just can win a tournament or something else and save the money and it will be ok !


- Well, seriously I doubt we'll see a new version of MA every year. I'm no expert, but computer games tend to take a long time to make from scratch.

- Yes, I can graduate in about 4 years. However, even then I have to contend with the... god... 80k-100k (I don't even know how bad my debt will be - how bad is that?) debts in loans for my tuition, room, board, etc. I have to start paying that, with interest, 6 months after graduation. Of course, hopefully by then I have a good job to pay for that... but still.

- Trust me, I ain't winnin any tournaments for awhile :)


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PostPosted: Mon Mar 08, 2004 12:34 pm 
I'm really sorry to hear about Matrix Games and the fact that you're currently not making any money on this great game.

However...

Just as you have your economy to worry about, I have mine, and I can't justify paying $5 a month if I only play a few games every month.

The thing with subscription based games is that they're not for casual players. MAN is not for casual players. MA, with the current online component, is for everyone, including casual players. I don't think I'm the only person who've bought MA and who are enjoying a few games online, but who don't play enough to be interested in paying for the service.

In other words, I fear that MA becoming subscription based might, in the short term at least, reduce the size of the community (or split it, if Wargaming.net go with the two options outlined earlier - I would definitely go for the "box version" of the multiplayer, as it works perfectly for me right now and I don't think I need any extra enhancements).

One solution could be, like I've mentioned before, to let people (who've bought MA! not people who've downloaded MAN) play a specific number of games per month before paying. This would ensure that there are still enough opponents for the paying customers, and that casual players would still be able to enjoy an occational game of MA online.


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PostPosted: Mon Mar 08, 2004 12:36 pm 
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I wrote the above. I thought I was logged in, but I might have pressed the "back" button a few times too many and logged out again somehow.


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PostPosted: Mon Mar 08, 2004 12:48 pm 
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It seems to me that at this time MA does not have a large enough fanbase to support a pay-to-play style setup. I'm no guru in the matters of business finance, but with as little mainstream media exposure as this game is getting, it would probably be very difficult to maintain a large enough number of players to keep such a business venture alive.


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PostPosted: Mon Mar 08, 2004 2:54 pm 
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So, this is similar to Laser Squad Nemesis:

http://www.lasersquadnemesis.com/

They had a few very succesful X-Com games published, disappeared, came back with a multi-player, web enabled version and are using the subscription based model for income while they develop even better products.

Good luck! While I like both games, I rarely have enough time for long enough periods to justify long term subscription based games. I'll play for a bit, then cancel and move on.

Boomer


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Mon Mar 08, 2004 5:37 pm 
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If the software is free and i have to pay for moultiplaye i donn't mind. If i can win stuff (like forementioned) I'll pay $5 a month.

of course I won't pay every month. I have months were i can only keep one game and will not be worth paying for.

Every fiber of my being is opposed to the monthly fee MMO games where you pay like $12 a month and an extra $50 for the game.


Blizzard did a great job with Diablo and I'm surprised they still have servers for it. It was free completely.

But if the MA guys are getting scrwed by a bad contract deal they have to what they can to get some money, games arn't made for free.

/rant (skip this part if your not really interested)

Maybe when i get a job my mind will change. ATM though i can barely afford to buy one game every few months. I don't download any of them from p2p places because i don't think that is fair to the developers. I don't download music or videos either out of respect for the people who actually worked to produce them. As for companies like the RIAA and MPAA they should roll over and die.

rant/

Middle men will go the way of the dinasour when broadband internet is more mainstream. So instead of having to go through a publisher i can download it drectly from the developer for less. That way he gets 100% of the profit (minus some server costs) from the sale, or they could give spiffs (commision) to retailers.

As for wether I'd pay a monthly fee.

I wouldn't as I'm saving up to pay for a car. Later when i have a job (most likly out of college) I would.

Perscription games are more for:
A. kids who's parents will pay for it.
B. people who have a job and steady income.

I don't fit in either. I like to think I have the right to play my game as long as i want once i purchase it. Of course things change in time.

bigest question though:

What happens to on going games?


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PostPosted: Mon Mar 08, 2004 8:36 pm 
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One point: We may be jumping to conclusions here... Up to now there has been no 90 day notice. It sounds like it has not come yet, which means the only people that will be paying for the subscription initially are the people that get the game through the MAN. Perhaps this is a moot point. Worth discussing, but with the knowledge it may never come to pass.

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Mon Mar 08, 2004 9:29 pm 
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that is true.

It would also be a nice people to introduce people to the game.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue Mar 09, 2004 6:30 am 
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Yes, you're right. There is no 90 day notice yet. And we're talking here to understand what should we do with MA players in MAN context. And I'm getting your points better now, which should help to benefit both developers and MA players.


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PostPosted: Tue Mar 09, 2004 5:29 pm 
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Anything to help out.


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PostPosted: Tue Mar 09, 2004 9:33 pm 
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I'm glad you guys are listening, and that the developers are a real part of the community. That's a reason to buy the game in itself. :wink:

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PostPosted: Wed Mar 10, 2004 2:37 pm 
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I don't buy games that you have to pay to play multiplayer. Paying $60 a year for a game plus the original $35 for the box doesn't go over real well when you've got a family to care for. I think MA is one of the best games out there and is the only one I've played the last month or two. I will not pay to play it even if it is relatively cheap at only $5 a month. I'm not pissed that you need to make money to exist, just sharing with you my reality if this comes to pass.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sun Mar 14, 2004 8:56 pm 
Dracovius wrote:
I don't buy games that you have to pay to play multiplayer. Paying $60 a year for a game plus the original $35 for the box doesn't go over real well when you've got a family to care for. I think MA is one of the best games out there and is the only one I've played the last month or two. I will not pay to play it even if it is relatively cheap at only $5 a month. I'm not pissed that you need to make money to exist, just sharing with you my reality if this comes to pass.


Same here Dracovius...


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PostPosted: Sun Mar 14, 2004 9:17 pm 
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Anonymous wrote:
Dracovius wrote:
I don't buy games that you have to pay to play multiplayer. Paying $60 a year for a game plus the original $35 for the box doesn't go over real well when you've got a family to care for. I think MA is one of the best games out there and is the only one I've played the last month or two. I will not pay to play it even if it is relatively cheap at only $5 a month. I'm not pissed that you need to make money to exist, just sharing with you my reality if this comes to pass.


Same here Dracovius...


This post was mine, thought I was logged in...


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sun Mar 14, 2004 9:20 pm 
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Will a developer please clarify something for me?

Does MAN mean we won't be seeing any more patch updates to MA? I was really hoping for some additions to the replay system. Does MAN mean I won't be seeing that?


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Mon Mar 15, 2004 10:37 am 
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It is not decided yet. It depends on the relationship of MA and MAN - how separate they will be. A lot of MA players do not want to pay any additional fees and want to play multiplayer for free forever. And it is reasonable. We may not stop the service they bought inside the box. And if we satisfy these interests, they will get just what they have paid for. But MAN subscribers will get something more. And it sounds very reasonable. It is like your car or TV-set: you may drive your old car or watch old TV-set, but if you want new model of car or TV-set, you should pay for it. I do not know any manufactures, which upgrade cars or TV-sets to new models for free. Customers may count only on some free problems fixing and some warranty. Don’t you think it is right?


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 Post subject: Expansions
PostPosted: Mon Mar 15, 2004 2:05 pm 
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I would be happy to simply get the promised AI upgrade. I would be willing to pay a reasonable price for expansion packs with additional maps, scenarios, and possibly units (although I like the unit balance now). I would make it a point to purchase these expansion packs online directly from the developers as they were available for download.

I do believe, however, that the promises the developers have made to the existing community regarding an AI upgrade and a couple of additional maps should be kept.

I love the game, but cannot regularly connect to the internet. I have a couple of online games going but enjoy the scenarios and campaigns immensly.

My two cents :D


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