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 Post subject: Weapons that can help a losing side make a turn around
PostPosted: Sun May 30, 2004 2:45 am 
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i think there should some sort of super weapon employed to help with the war efforts of each side. i think the union should have a nuclear type bomb dropped for a drop ship and the phantom have a planetary orbiting sattalite shoot a massive lazer blast.
thus making each side a have a equally damaging super weapon that can only be used once in the skirmish, or make them cost alot of revenue like 6-7 seven turns worth. this would help aleaveate those who mass build and sweep and win by sheer force not strategy,some times people get good countries to start in so this could help to break down all units by what im thinking is 3-4 points in a whole country where the super strikes or make it a raidial blast area that is as big as a air units flying space,but it would have its cons to. 1 lots of revenue 2 possible to hit your own with em. 3 one per round or lots of revenue. come on guys, you know we need some thing like that, that would just frost the cake even better and would help in making totally dominated and out numbered games able to be turned around in a blink of a eye.

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 Post subject: Re: Weapons that can help a losing side make a turn around
PostPosted: Sun May 30, 2004 7:07 am 
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wizo59mt wrote:
thus making each side a have a equally damaging super weapon that can only be used once in the skirmish, or make them cost alot of revenue like 6-7 seven turns worth. this would help aleaveate those who mass build and sweep and win by sheer force not strategy


If someone manages to destroy you by mass build and sweep, then it's you who are not using strategy, or the wrong kind of strategy. Everything can be countered if it is spotted in time.

Try taking over a few neutral countries instead of sitting and waiting for your opponent to finish his/her building and you'll be able to deploy an army twice as big in no time.

Also, keep in mind the 300% balance requirement to win. If you manage to take over countries at a faster rate (which you will if you're building smaller armies than your opponent,) you will pass the 300% ratio and win.

Super weapons are also not in the spirit of the game. The designers have been very careful not to include any game-winner units, but rather requiring players to cleverly combine weak units into a strong force.

(It is also more polite to ask "I'm having trouble beating X. Any tips?" than "This game has a flaw: it needs Y so that I can beat X without changing my strategy.".)


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PostPosted: Mon May 31, 2004 8:36 pm 
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ya know i figured there would be power mongers like yourself who not agree but come on, this should be a game all stratigests like yourself and people not as good with the X,Y,Z as my self. cause of some of you supperior guys ive seen people start and never come back cause there is no way to win against some of you guys who master the tactics and the numbers. so are you saying hell with all you sucky guys...there is no need to make a weapon that could possibly screw your mastered game up. i think you should consder other people and ideas to.

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PostPosted: Mon May 31, 2004 9:19 pm 
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wizo, the "unit" you're proposing would do the losing player more harm than good. Think about it: if a person has enough money to zerg you to death, then he sure as HELL has enough money to buy more superunits than you. Sure, you may wear down a big part of his army with one blast, but then he'll return fire with five or six shots of his own and obliterate every last unit you have.

Additionally, I hate to say it, but your idea that this will somehow level the playing field is total shit. If the unit is powerful enough to let a significantly weaker player beat an otherwise much stronger opponent, then yeah, the good strategists will be brought down to the level of the crappy ones, but the people who figure out how to abuse the superunit the best will simply take their place. And you know what that means? That means that there will STILL be a group of nigh-unbeatable elite players pummeling the daylights out of newbies and weaker players. That's right, you heard me. Adding a new game-breaking superunit won't do a damn thing to the skill spread...and that's only if the community is lucky!

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PostPosted: Mon May 31, 2004 9:25 pm 
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well i dis agree....im in a epic 40+ turned game that would be great to have that super weapon right about now to help my units get a chance of fighting before he can over my capitals. as for all you you who disagree i see there must be no room for growth.

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PostPosted: Mon May 31, 2004 9:44 pm 
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There's plenty of room for growth. Just check out the load of units I've suggested: http://massiveassault.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=297&postdays=0&postorder=asc&start=40

The growth that I do NOT feel there is room for is that which BREAKS THE DAMN GAME. Having new options is always good, but deliberately breaking the fundamental ideals upon which the game is based is simply unacceptable.

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue Jun 01, 2004 7:35 am 
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sorry wizo but i have to agree with everyone else, tthis game is all about strattegy, and there's no stretegy in pressing a button to blow away half ur enemies force, it's like c&c everytthing is good until u come to the super wepaons, then it's whoever has the most of them wins.

The appeal of the game is the way u have to use different units to support one another, such a powerful wepaon as u are suggesting would make turn the game into a who can get to the big wepaon 1st.

Using ur 40 turn game as an example, imagine how ur opponent would feel if after 40 turns of a great game taht 's been well fought, and he's finally pulling ahead, half his army is suddenly vapourised by a superweapon.

I just feel that such a powerul thing would unbalance and ruin the game.

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue Jun 01, 2004 9:17 am 
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Actually, in most games the problem with the super weapons is that they're under-powered and over-priced. Anyway, I fail to see the point to this. Good players will always be good players. Who those good players are may change, but they will always exist.

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue Jun 01, 2004 11:17 am 
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Don't forget that wizo specified that it would be vastly overpowered.

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu Jun 03, 2004 12:09 am 
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no matter, i just think some think like that could be factored in numbers wise and i do think it would be cool to have that wild card you could play at any time so you strategy would always be hard pressed to change every few turns. like us who have been in the military always move but not in the same direction or with on plan cause shit happens and if half your units get a hardcore shakedown or total destroyed is your own dam fault for thinking he wouldnt know when to use the wild card....but thats ok some of you guys are starting to piss me off with your out of control nerdyness about tactics and factors, what about a suprise other than having a dam transport pop a ass load of units all over your army or armies and making a boring ass loss once again. i think i might have to retire from this game soon.

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu Jun 03, 2004 7:12 am 
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if u need that kind of wild card then fair enough, but i wouldn't expect to see it appear in this game any time soon. (or i hope not). This game is designed for the tactician, and has been compared many times to chess in the way it's played, ie u have set rules and have to play within those rules to the best of ur abaility.

Didn't understand aobut wether u are planning on retiring due to the lack of a wild card of the fact tath ppl were disagreeing with u, either way hope u stick around.

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu Jun 03, 2004 9:07 am 
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I don't see this as having any affect other than delaying the inevitable for a few turns, and drawing out a game. Simplistic example:

Let's pretend the "SuperWeapon" destroys 50% of your opponent's units. I'm losing the war with only 60 units left, whereas my opponent has 100...so I use the SuperWeapon. My opponent is now left with 50 units. "Ha ha ha!" I think. "Now I'M ahead."

My opponent just smiles and uses HIS "SuperWeapon." Now I'm down to 30 units, and he's still ahead.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu Jun 03, 2004 12:18 pm 
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wizo, for the love of God, try to listen: I'm not saying not to add new stuff, and I'm not saying not to add potential surprise tactics. I'm saying DO NOT BREAK THE GAME WHEN YOU DO SO.

A great example I can think of is Blizzard's StarCraft and Warcraft III. In StarCraft, a 4-pool rush (a zerg tactic which is the fastest attack in the game) is one HELL of a surprise and will usually end the game one way or the other...but it isn't broken. Likewise, the items in Warcraft III provide all kinds of unpredictability, but they are (for the most part, at any rate) balanced out. What you are suggesting deliberately goes beyond this to outright cheese.

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sun Jun 06, 2004 1:58 am 
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ok...im not gonna try and make anyone else try and see it my way. i dont really care, just thought it would be cool.

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue Jun 15, 2004 11:50 pm 
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I have a better suggestion.

Don't let yourself get into a losing position.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue Jun 15, 2004 11:50 pm 
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Part of an accidental triple post :/ Sorry.


Last edited by Bolgard the Mad on Wed Jun 16, 2004 4:37 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed Jun 16, 2004 1:24 pm 
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Part of an accidental triple post :/ Sorry.


Last edited by Bolgard the Mad on Wed Jun 16, 2004 4:37 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed Jun 16, 2004 3:49 pm 
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What the crap!?

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed Jun 16, 2004 4:36 pm 
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Gah! Sorry folks - have no idea how that happened. Could a mod clean that up?


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed Jun 16, 2004 5:15 pm 
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I can understand the double, but how did it triple? I mean, look at the times. Weird.

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