Massive Assault Official Forum
   
It is currently Sat Jul 20, 2019 9:04 pm

All times are UTC - 5 hours




Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 41 posts ]  Go to page Previous  1, 2, 3  Next
Author Message
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu May 06, 2004 11:24 am 
Offline
Conscript

Joined: Sat Feb 21, 2004 6:29 pm
Posts: 9
Karma: 0
The last post was by me, I forgot to log in.

Changing the target for the My Documents shortcut won't change the directory that the game writes it's saves to. The files will still be saved to the same path and I'd have to manually move them all to the alternate folder I created if I want to get them off the C drive. Additionally if I do move them the game won't be able to find them anymore so I'd have to move them back each time I want to play.

It would be nice if save file location was selectable during installation. That way everyone wins.

_________________
stuponfucious


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Fri May 07, 2004 4:19 am 
Offline
Sea Wolf
User avatar

Joined: Sat Feb 21, 2004 1:26 pm
Posts: 821
Karma: 0
garf wrote:
The last post was by me, I forgot to log in.

Changing the target for the My Documents shortcut won't change the directory that the game writes it's saves to. The files will still be saved to the same path and I'd have to manually move them all to the alternate folder I created if I want to get them off the C drive. Additionally if I do move them the game won't be able to find them anymore so I'd have to move them back each time I want to play.

It would be nice if save file location was selectable during installation. That way everyone wins.


Except people who don't know what they're doing. It's perfectly possible to point at My Documents and NOT the location, or you can check the reg entry when saving. It's hardly going to tax anyones brain.

_________________
"Massive Assault is a game for those, who like to think. In this game random factor exists without doubt, but it doesn't play a decisive role." - Tiger


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Fri May 07, 2004 9:52 am 
Offline
Conscript

Joined: Sat Feb 21, 2004 6:29 pm
Posts: 9
Karma: 0
Quitch wrote:
Except people who don't know what they're doing. It's perfectly possible to point at My Documents and NOT the location, or you can check the reg entry when saving. It's hardly going to tax anyones brain.


I don't think anyone will have any more trouble selecting a save location then they already do selecting a location to install the game itself. People who don't know what they're doing will still have to deal with an identical situation so if they can overcome it once I'm sure twice won't be too much trouble. There are default options after all. If you don't think people could figure that out then how would they ever figure out how to work with the registry? I'm not aware of any easy way to make the game point it's saves to a different directory. Easy being something that any computer illiterate joe schmoe could do. I still think having an installation or menu option to select where the game saves is the easiest and best method. I have several games that offer that and it's great. You get what you want, I get what I want, everyone else gets whatever they want, what's so bad about that? It doesn't matter how taxing any of this is on the brain. Just cause I can do something doesn't mean I always want to. The main focus of my post was simply to point out a convenient way that everyone could be happy. I'm sorry you disagree but I don't think your idea is any better.. You get what you want quickly and conveniently and I get.. screwed.

_________________
stuponfucious


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Fri May 07, 2004 10:35 am 
Offline
Sea Wolf
User avatar

Joined: Sat Feb 21, 2004 1:26 pm
Posts: 821
Karma: 0
No, it's not for what people want, it's to give what the game already says it offers: Windows 2000 & XP compatibility. Well, it doesn't really because it isn't user compatible, and this is solely because of its ill thought out install location. Not to mention that forcing every user to use the same settings is ridiculous.

I work on an IT Helpdesk, I can assure you that what you propose is light-years ahead of the average persons IT understanding.

_________________
"Massive Assault is a game for those, who like to think. In this game random factor exists without doubt, but it doesn't play a decisive role." - Tiger


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Fri May 07, 2004 11:29 am 
Offline
Conscript

Joined: Sat Feb 21, 2004 6:29 pm
Posts: 9
Karma: 0
See, I'll agree that there are alot of people who aren't all that well informed about computers but in this situation it strikes me as irrelevant. Either way people have to either select the path to install the game to or go with whatever default is. The procedure for chosing where to write save games to would be identical. If you can't figure out how to chose a directory for save games you probably won't be able to figure out how to chose a directory to install the game to in the first place. Just give people a message along the lines of, "If you don't know what you're doing leave it as is and hit next". You don't need any IT knowledge to follow simple instructions like those.

I realise that you're talking about compatibility with XP but if the game defaulted to write save files to MyDocs and gave the option to change that during installation would that not then be compatible and mutually satisfactory?

_________________
stuponfucious


Last edited by garf on Fri May 07, 2004 11:30 am, edited 1 time in total.

Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Fri May 07, 2004 11:30 am 
Offline
Veteran

Joined: Fri Feb 27, 2004 2:54 pm
Posts: 85
Karma: 0
"Changing the target for the My Documents shortcut won't change the directory that the game writes it's saves to. The files will still be saved to the same path and I'd have to manually move them all to the alternate folder I created if I want to get them off the C drive."

Incorrect. Changing the target for the My Documents shortcut changes the registry entry in WinXP/2k so that any reference made to "My Documents" by any program (unless the developers weren't bright enough to point to My Documents instead of to C:\$USERPROFILE\My Documents, which is absolutely STUPID on the Developer's part, since "My Documents" in WinXP/2K isn't just "C:\My Documents", and hasn't been since WinNT4.) will point to whatever target you've shifted to shortcut to. Period. The My Documents Shortcut on the desktop/start menu is a registry entry, it's not a folder or a typical shortcut. It's a direct link, which means if you change the target (which you will note that with all other shortcuts the layout is different. In the My Documents properties, it doesn't say "Shortcut Target" and give all the shortcut references, it says "My Documents Target:". It's altering the registry entry), you change the registry entry. My Documents is an anomaly like that.


And, by the by, working in the same field as Quitch, he's right. It's WAY beyond your average user's comprehension.

Me.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Fri May 07, 2004 11:36 am 
Offline
Conscript

Joined: Sat Feb 21, 2004 6:29 pm
Posts: 9
Karma: 0
Alright, so I stand corrected on the My Documents thing. Thanks for that by the way, good to know. I still don't get how doing something that people already do would be way beyond thier understanding though. I guess I'm looking at this wrong but to me it seems as simple as asking them to repeat a process they had to do just 5 seconds earlier.

_________________
stuponfucious


Last edited by garf on Fri May 07, 2004 11:45 am, edited 2 times in total.

Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Fri May 07, 2004 11:40 am 
Offline
Veteran

Joined: Fri Feb 27, 2004 2:54 pm
Posts: 85
Karma: 0
I don't think he was suggesting forcing the saved games to My Docs without the option to put them elsewhere, I think he was specifically stating the SETTINGS files should be dropped into My Docs, which they should. These are files that are generally just a few kbytes, usually text files, that generally differ from user to user on the machine, they should be locked into the user's profile in their mydocs folder. The savegames should default there as well, but with the option to put them elsewhere if you want.

Me.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Fri May 07, 2004 3:08 pm 
Offline
Conscript

Joined: Sat Feb 21, 2004 6:29 pm
Posts: 9
Karma: 0
Asmodeous wrote:
I don't think he was suggesting forcing the saved games to My Docs without the option to put them elsewhere


Yea, I guess you're right. I think I just misunderstood the comment I quoted below. My bad.. probably.

Quitch wrote:
Saving in the game directory is about the most stupid thing a game can do, and no programmer with any interest in 2K/XP compatibility would do it.

_________________
stuponfucious


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Fri May 07, 2004 6:01 pm 
Offline
Sea Wolf
User avatar

Joined: Sat Feb 21, 2004 1:26 pm
Posts: 821
Karma: 0
Games shouldn't have to prat about with "where would you like your files?" They should point somewhere that a user has MODIFY access to, and even better, that is unique to that user.

My Documents is the one several games currently use, and this allows the user to ensure the C: drive isn't always the one uses. It's by far the most logical place, since My Pictures and My Music already reside there, why not My Games too?

Saving into the games own directory is stupid. I filed several support calls before I realised what was happening. This was support time MA support need never have spent had this issue been thought out in advance. The number of programs that suffer from the same problem is amazing, and just goes to show how few programmers know anything about the OS they are coding for.

_________________
"Massive Assault is a game for those, who like to think. In this game random factor exists without doubt, but it doesn't play a decisive role." - Tiger


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Fri May 07, 2004 6:38 pm 
Offline
P.L. Marshal
User avatar

Joined: Thu Nov 13, 2003 11:14 am
Posts: 1065
Karma: 0
saving games in game own directory is what 90% of games do so it is not stupid
NOT having modify access to anything IS stupid


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Fri May 07, 2004 7:37 pm 
Offline
Sea Wolf
User avatar

Joined: Sat Feb 21, 2004 1:26 pm
Posts: 821
Karma: 0
1. 90% of games are stupid, like it or not.

2. Actually, it's standard practice as a security measure. One of the reasons Windows is nortoriously insecure is because most people logon as an admin.

_________________
"Massive Assault is a game for those, who like to think. In this game random factor exists without doubt, but it doesn't play a decisive role." - Tiger


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Fri May 14, 2004 11:08 am 
Offline
Conscript

Joined: Tue May 04, 2004 4:59 am
Posts: 17
Karma: 0
i have no problem with multiuser enviroments but i'd rather have the choice of where it saves the game

i like having nice organised work areas i'm the only person i no with less than ten items on my desktop, and if it wasn't more hasle than it's worth shifting microsofts default C**P i'd have even less

i don't want my docs clogged with game saves just like i don't want games installing all over the place and bloating the start menu

i have all games installed in C:\games i have all game shortcut in programs\games i have a short cut to this directoryon the desktop

if i can't keep a games saves with the game i'd atleast like to have the option of choosing the place they go just like most programs let you choose where to install the game and where in the start menu they put their short cuts

_________________
Would a jury of computer programers convict someone of killing Bill Gates?

Answers on a letter bomb to bill gates


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Fri May 14, 2004 11:15 am 
Offline
Conscript

Joined: Tue May 04, 2004 4:59 am
Posts: 17
Karma: 0
Quitch wrote:
Except people who don't know what they're doing. It's perfectly possible to point at My Documents and NOT the location, or you can check the reg entry when saving. It's hardly going to tax anyones brain.


i've done that before and as 90% of microsoft software (and i have quite a bit Word, Excel, Visual Studio, etc) defaults to the My Documents loction so it you shift the my documnets location for the games it shifts all the defauls to that location and you end up get annoyed moving back and forth.

_________________
Would a jury of computer programers convict someone of killing Bill Gates?

Answers on a letter bomb to bill gates


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Fri May 14, 2004 11:50 am 
Offline
Conscript

Joined: Tue May 04, 2004 4:59 am
Posts: 17
Karma: 0
Quitch wrote:
1. 90% of games are stupid, like it or not.

2. Actually, it's standard practice as a security measure. One of the reasons Windows is nortoriously insecure is because most people logon as an admin.


no 70% of games that are currently on the market were in development before microsoft got the bright idea to change how every thing work

and winXP compatable means that you can play the game on a machine that uses winXP and hey it does, the box doesn't claim it used winxp user profiles it just says it work and thats it

and correct me if i'm wrong but as admin can't you just give all user access to the games directory meaning that if you know enought about your computer to be worried about that sort of secuirity issue you can fix it?

_________________
Would a jury of computer programers convict someone of killing Bill Gates?

Answers on a letter bomb to bill gates


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Fri May 14, 2004 12:51 pm 
Offline
Veteran
User avatar

Joined: Tue Mar 30, 2004 6:11 pm
Posts: 143
Karma: 0

Location: Bergen, Norway
Giving all users write access to shared binary files is a security issue.

Write access work like this: If a user can install a game in the shared programs folder he can put and modify anything in there.

A clueless or malicious user will then be able to infect all the other users with viruses, trojans and what-have-you.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Fri May 14, 2004 1:18 pm 
Offline
Veteran

Joined: Fri Feb 27, 2004 2:54 pm
Posts: 85
Karma: 0
"no 70% of games that are currently on the market were in development before microsoft got the bright idea to change how every thing work "

Uhm, that's not exactly the case. WinNT had the ability to do it, too. Win98 also did, but it didn't exactly "work" right, since you could just hit esc to skip past it.

The security has always been there, but people have ignored it, and then blown up at MS about windows being "insecure", so MS kinda forced it on people and said "STFU".

MS is a company that's in a damned if you do, damned if you don't situation. They do things the right way, people complain about the fact that things are different than they used to be. Do it the wrong way, people complain about the security issues.

Pick which issue is more important and hold on to that one, and then shut up about the other one. 9 out of 10 people rate security higher than having to deal with change. So complaining about both is stupid.

Me.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Fri May 14, 2004 1:39 pm 
Offline
Veteran
User avatar

Joined: Tue Mar 30, 2004 6:11 pm
Posts: 143
Karma: 0

Location: Bergen, Norway
I'm not disagreeing with your post, just wanted to comment this little part:
Asmodeous wrote:
9 out of 10 people rate security higher than having to deal with change.


I think it's the other way around. :)

I've been working in a office a few years and noticed that more than 9 out of 10 users set their user passwords to "123", leave their computers logged in after they leave for the weekend and keep numerous passwords written on a post-it note stuck to the monitor.

All users want security, but few are prepared to actually adhere to the needed discipline.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Fri May 14, 2004 1:50 pm 
Offline
Veteran

Joined: Fri Feb 27, 2004 2:54 pm
Posts: 85
Karma: 0
Alright, I'll give you that. ;)

Me.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Mon May 17, 2004 6:11 am 
Offline
Conscript

Joined: Tue May 04, 2004 4:59 am
Posts: 17
Karma: 0
Deestan wrote:
Giving all users write access to shared binary files is a security issue.

Write access work like this: If a user can install a game in the shared programs folder he can put and modify anything in there.

A clueless or malicious user will then be able to infect all the other users with viruses, trojans and what-have-you.

that might be and issue if the game stores its saves in it;s root dir but most keep them in a sub dir which was the one i meant to refference

i also believe that to can set the game so that it has admin permission with out givening that to the user

_________________
Would a jury of computer programers convict someone of killing Bill Gates?

Answers on a letter bomb to bill gates


Top
 Profile  
 
Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 41 posts ]  Go to page Previous  1, 2, 3  Next

All times are UTC - 5 hours


Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 3 guests


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot post attachments in this forum

Search for:
Jump to:  
cron
Powered by phpBB © 2000, 2002, 2005, 2007 phpBB Group
Karma functions powered by Karma MOD © 2007, 2009 m157y