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 Post subject: Making custom world war maps?
PostPosted: Wed Mar 10, 2004 9:34 pm 
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Hi i just recently discovnered the map editor and im really amazed with it. I wanted to make a map based on paradise where you both started on 1 island with a large amounts of resources and 1 secret ally. Well i went to work with this and succedded except for the fact i tried loading it and basically what happens is the AI uses and builds all the weapons and stuff. But they dont attack at all, they wont invade neutral countries they just sit theyre building missle launchers and tanks.

:S also is there a way to make custom world war maps aside from the default few???


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu Mar 11, 2004 11:40 am 
To get them to invade u need to give them targets, eg ai will win if he can capture A and B while holding C and D. As for amking our own maps as far as i know it would be too ahrd to make possible as each map is unique in scenary etc (I would love a mpa editor) so we'll just ahve to wait for some new maps to be finished :)


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 Post subject: Re: Making custom world war maps?
PostPosted: Fri Mar 12, 2004 6:05 am 
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[quote="ЬberJumper";Hi i just recently discovnered the map editor and im really amazed with it. I wanted to make a map based on paradise where you both started on 1 island with a large amounts of resources and 1 secret ally. Well i went to work with this and succedded except for the fact i tried loading it and basically what happens is the AI uses and builds all the weapons and stuff. But they dont attack at all, they wont invade neutral countries they just sit theyre building missle launchers and tanks.

:S also is there a way to make custom world war maps aside from the default few???[/quote]

The main reason for that behavious is most probably the fact that A.I. currently does not use Transports.

We are now preparing the major A.I. update so that it starts using both naval and land transports


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Fri Mar 12, 2004 4:07 pm 
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no its not like that, like they wont invade any countries that are netural, even if i say they have to conquer that country to win.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue Apr 20, 2004 1:04 am 
Where can I find the Map editor? (not the scenario editor)


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue Apr 20, 2004 2:02 am 
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ЬberJumper wrote:
no its not like that, like they wont invade any countries that are netural, even if i say they have to conquer that country to win.


Have you remembered to activate the country? If you post your scenario here, we can have a look-see.

Guest wrote:
Where can I find the Map editor? (not the scenario editor)


It exists not! 8)


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue Apr 20, 2004 12:03 pm 
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Having a map maker has some problems.
In the future, maps will probably be sold by Wargaming, Inc. as part of MAN. Therefore, if a map-maker was released to the public, it might be the end of profit for them.
Image
Oh, I know that 75% of earth is covered with water, but this is ridiculous.

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue Apr 20, 2004 9:31 pm 
:( Pretty Sad. Having a map editor included in each of the Mechwarrior and MechCommander series never killed it, it just made the game even more popular.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed Apr 21, 2004 4:46 am 
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We have no map editor as single program. We are using Maya + Photoshop + some our tools to create new maps.


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 Post subject: map editor
PostPosted: Wed Apr 21, 2004 5:27 am 
I couldn't agree more, many programs come with map editors, and in fact it has made the games even more popular. I'm sorry but if new maps have to be bought then thats a rip off. The game is good but it's not that good there are many limitations to movement and firing and they severely restrict the tactical element of the game.

:-?


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed Apr 21, 2004 6:06 am 
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You really want to know whats missing from MA?

I'll tell you...

We need a map of Earth: Large planet, high level economy.
It would be a more interesting game if the planets were really round.

I also meant that by having a free map editor, people would make their own maps and wouldn't buy Wargaming's maps. That is, assuming they had a map editor, which I now know they don't.

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 Post subject: Re: map editor
PostPosted: Wed Apr 21, 2004 6:25 am 
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justme wrote:
I couldn't agree more, many programs come with map editors, and in fact it has made the games even more popular. I'm sorry but if new maps have to be bought then thats a rip off. The game is good but it's not that good there are many limitations to movement and firing and they severely restrict the tactical element of the game.

:-?


What, you only know how to play in open fields or something?

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed Apr 21, 2004 7:53 am 
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Our maps are not tile-based. The only way to create them is to model in Maya and then paint in Photoshop. We have discussed several ways of implementing a map-editor and the only way to make it accessible is to switch to tile-based maps. But that can't be done in a fast way due to lots of programming/designing required.
We would have been happy to release the map editor to free our deigners from the work that could be done by others.

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed Apr 21, 2004 11:43 am 
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That would be nice. How aboult the ability to use Bryce to generate the land-mass model. Custom scripting and mod-making are also some ideas to consider.

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed Apr 21, 2004 3:44 pm 
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Anonymous wrote:
:( Pretty Sad. Having a map editor included in each of the Mechwarrior and MechCommander series never killed it, it just made the game even more popular.

I wasn't aware of map editors for these, and I'm a veteran of SL's Mech Commander league. However, I HAVE seen the effect that the map editors have had on Starcraft and Warcraft 3, and have to agree with you on that point.

That said, I just don't think it would work well with MA. Most of the popularity of the UMS maps comes from the ones that really use the map editor's flexibility (read: Tower Defense, etc.), which the turn-based environment would grind away into crappyness. All that's left then is ladder and near-ladder (read: BGH) maps. The ladder maps for SC and WC3 are made by Blizzard, and I'd rather have the MA dev team doing the same than letting any well-meaning but low-quality map-maker crowd out the real gems that we already have. As for near-ladder...the horrible bastardizations of otherwise good maps that float around BNet have always irked me, and it would be a sad day indeed when somebody released Big Game Wasserland.

...of course, this is on top of what Sky Keeper said and the problems with distributing custom maps given the network setup of MA/MAN.

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed Apr 21, 2004 7:52 pm 
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Hmmm....
You could make a wire-mesh editor that allows players to change the height at different coordinates.
The problem with most map editors is that they are not all that easy to use. The topic that elludes me the most is Brushes (in 3d map makers)

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed Apr 21, 2004 9:18 pm 
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Strategos wrote:
The topic that elludes me the most is Brushes (in 3d map makers)

Isn't that like the most basic possible level of terrain editing? :o

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed Apr 21, 2004 9:33 pm 
:o That's exactly how both the series I mentioned work! In addition, they both allow the importation and exportation of grayscale height maps (which can easily be made in Terragen, though I prefer Photoshop). After generating your heightmap, you just apply a color overlay of the primary color of your terrain, set your water level, then "paint" the detail in. Not a "one step" process, but pretty simple for most folks to master. Of course you could compose the entire map within the map editor (which used a wire mesh system for keeping tract of the height), but it's a rather slow, tedious, and error prone process that yields poor results. Height editing within the (MechWarrior and MechCommander series) editors is best used only for cleaning up details.

As for the propensity for low quality maps to rapidly multiply, this happens with every game, of course the same can be said for the quality of players one might meet online. For every good map out there, there are easily 100 or more bad ones. This is OK though, because it is hardwired in human nature to dismiss what is bad, and gravitate towards the good. Those maps that are good will become more popular, which in turn encourages their designer's to produce even more good quality maps, bad map designers will be shunned and fade into obscurity (the same way a true free market economy works)!

Anyone who doubts this can just look at ID Software and UbiSoft for inspiration. Two of the employees on the Doom III team started as fans of Doom II who created extremely popular levels that they posted on ID's site. Three of the current members of the Rainbow Six design team are also former fans who also were noticed by UbiSoft for producing superior game levels.

Point is, any yahoo can draw a map, but it takes a real artist (in the programming sense) to produce a challenging scenario. :wink:


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed Apr 21, 2004 9:45 pm 
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Anonymous wrote:
This is OK though, because it is hardwired in human nature to dismiss what is bad, and gravitate towards the good. Those maps that are good will become more popular, which in turn encourages their designer's to produce even more good quality maps, bad map designers will be shunned and fade into obscurity (the same way a true free market economy works)!

Sadly, my experience on BNet implies the opposite: high quality, well thought-out maps by skilled and dedicated designers get overrun by crap like "SPERM WARS v. 1.4.5.3.1.2!!!!111!!!!!11!!!" (actual map name). :cry:

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed Apr 21, 2004 10:02 pm 
Looks like you're shunning to me :D


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