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 Post subject: Time Out Etiquette
PostPosted: Fri Jun 10, 2005 7:58 am 
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Sea Wolf
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I've been thinking lately on the hard time limits we're stuck with with MA/MAN, and how there have been hard feelings when some time out others. I know that we can't enforce how the time limits are applied, but I was thinking that if all clans could agree on a standard etiquette of when its "fair" to time someone out, then maybe the hard feelings and problems would be reduced

So what we have here is this in a nutshell. We need time limits, because otherwise games drag out for a very long time. But the time limits are very harsh... you go over once, even if you've done all other turns well under the time limit, and your opponent can just finish the game. Done. Over. And could be very bad in a situation where you have multiple people fighting in a system due to least turns rule.

So what I'm proposing that due to the harshness of the time limits, that we all agree on a standard ettiquite to follow, where we can time someone out when they are delaying too regularly, but still be reasonable about the whole thing and understand sometimes people just get busy, and can't get to their turn.

Here's what I propose (assuming the 3 day limit of the Clan Wars):
1) If you know you are going to go over the time limit, tell others how much time you need.
2) When someone goes over the time limit without messaging you once, message them that you will time them out if they don't respond within 1 day after the time limit has expired. Give them that 1 day, and if they don't respond with a reason for going over you are justified in timing them out.
3) If they go over the time limit later in the game, give them another day warning, but this time let them know that next time they go over limit, you will time them out immediately.
4) After this second warning, you are justified in timing them out if they go over the limit without telling you anytime later in the game. But Please don't time them out right after the time limit is expired, because a lot of the hard feelings arise when someone sits down to do their turn right before, or just after a time limit expired and they find when they finish the turn that it is timed out.
5) If you find yourself in the situation where you don't have much time before the time limit, and your opponent has warned you that they will time you out the next time you go over, message them that you are doing your turn now!

Finally, I know that we can't directly enfore these rules, and anyone can choose to ignore them, or on the side of those that are delaying their turns, can abuse them. I'd say, in those cases where you feel that someone isn't following these rules, that those people could be talked about, and the rules won't apply to them until they choose to follow them better. That means if you time out people the second the time limit expires, then expect people to do the same to you. If a clan in general ignores this Etiquette, then expect some of your slower/more busy members to be timed out in retaliation.

Any comments about these rules? I hope all the Clan War leaders can agree on some set of rules for this, and then pass them on to their clan. If you think these rules should be modified or changed, speak up.

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PostPosted: Tue Jun 14, 2005 4:51 am 
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I think this is a good rules.

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed Jun 15, 2005 4:21 pm 
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hard feelings arise when someone sits down to do their turn right before, or just after a time limit expired and they find when they finish the turn that it is timed out.

i had faced such opponents several times and i think that sending turn in a very last moment before time limit (like 2 days 23 hours and 55 minutes) is very bad practice and annoys me immencely.It is just exploiting the time limits.And i dont care about "hard feelings" of such people -they should just sent turns in earlier not in very last moment.

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PostPosted: Thu Jun 16, 2005 3:06 am 
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I actually agree with Mrakobes - with one small addition . . .

I think that regularly sending turns at the very last moment before time limit (like 2 days 23 hours and 55 minutes) is very bad practice.

But someone who plays at non-consistent intervals (ie sometimes quickly, sometimes using half the time limit, and sometimes using the full limit) should be given leeway.


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PostPosted: Thu Jun 16, 2005 9:18 am 
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We are not talking about the "last minute players" but about cases where the player has not the material possibility to send his turn in time for different reasons (like family,job, studies ecc...)
Not all the players have the possibility to spend all the whole day in front of pc checkin for turns....we all have, I think, many things to do on every day life even much more important than a simple turn, however this doesnt mean to suffer a defeat by time out.....
Well, accepting some few fair play rules, players remove that danger or at least set a limit to it.

I think that the agreement must be previous and only between the players: if someone knows that he cant send his turn (in time) and at the same time he dont want to give up to play the game he can give notice to his opponent, so if the opponent agree both players could fix a new time limit...during it they are sure not to have time out.

We might have also a list with the players who accept the fair play rules and a list with all players who dont support preventive agreements...

Hope been clear :wink:

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Mon Jun 27, 2005 8:47 am 
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guderian27 has finished game with Tywer by using time-limit in the battle 68072 (NE3 of Orion). Tywer had serious advantage in this game, but he has too many games now, so he delayed about 20 minutes more than it was allowed by time-limit. Our Clan agree that it was legal action, but we don't count that our agreement with this "Time Out Etiquette" will be applied to guderian27.

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Mon Jun 27, 2005 11:35 am 
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Tiger wrote:
guderian27 has finished game with Tywer by using time-limit in the battle 68072 (NE3 of Orion). Tywer had serious advantage in this game, but he has too many games now, so he delayed about 20 minutes more than it was allowed by time-limit. Our Clan agree that it was legal action, but we don't count that our agreement with this "Time Out Etiquette" will be applied to guderian27.


Tiger

1) I havent received any message about the delay neither from Tywer nor from you....
2) I have used time limit option after 1 hour and 45 minutes.
3) Just Tywer and Gleb did the same with me on Anubis and Crateus even after my message...(you can see the game finished on January 15.2005-Anubis,Tywer and the games n°55662-55663 Gleb,Crateus
The law is the same for all, or NOT?

Anyway...Im very sorry for this :( and I think that the time limit etiquette works very well just sending a message in advance...just like Jocamp do, for istance... he often delay his turns (even 1 day and more) but I dont finish his games.
Sorry again :wink:

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Mon Jun 27, 2005 12:22 pm 
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guderian27 wrote:
1) I havent received any message about the delay neither from Tywer nor from you....

Was it difficult directly for you to send any msg w/a to Maelstrom's rules?
guderian27 wrote:
2) I have used time limit option after 1 hour and 45 minutes.

Oh thanks a lot, it's so long! We're all so much appreciated you!
guderian27 wrote:
3) Just Tywer and Gleb did the same with me on Anubis and Crateus even after my message...(you can see the game finished on January 15.2005-Anubis,Tywer and the games n°55662-55663 Gleb,Crateus
The law is the same for all, or NOT?

Firstly, I'd like to say that it's not a law - it's just suggestion to keep good & quiet situation inside CW. And finally, you've replied for yr last question by yrself. Look at pointed date & at the date of Maelstrom's post. Do you have still any questions?

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Mon Jun 27, 2005 12:38 pm 
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There is no way to enforce the ettiquite directly. Guderian27, you yourself said that we could keep a list of those that do agree or don't agree with the set of rules, and treat them accordingly.

It is your choice whether you follow them or not, but if you choose not to follow them expect others to act the same way. In this case (the first time someone goes over limit) in the suggested rules you should have messaged Tywer with a warning that you would time him out in one day if he did not respond. After that if he still missed a deadline later in the game, you would give him a final warning that you would time him out immediately if he goes over without telling you why. After that time you would be justified in timing him out 1 minute after the game expired (though we still frown on that practice).

Tywer should have sent a message telling you he was going to be late, yes, but consider the fact that right now Tywer has 17 games between the two wars to play, and will be hard pressed to keep up as is.

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Mon Jun 27, 2005 1:56 pm 
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Sea Wolf
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Uhhh what a disaster I made.... :-? Just due to a time out

I thougt that Maelstrom post was only a proposal, a suggest, nobody else has declared to accept it; so please write in the forum the official rules of behaviour and let us know which clan do accept it and which dont accept it; doing so every CW player will know how to do in such a case.
Now TGE will time me out no sooner Ill delay, nevermind for me its ok!!
But I raccomend one time again to have an official treaty with rules of behaviour and a list of clans/players who wants such rules.

bye

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Mon Jun 27, 2005 1:57 pm 
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Uhhh what a disaster I made.... :-? Just due to a time out

I thougt that Maelstrom post was only a proposal, a suggest, nobody else has declared to accept it; so please write in the forum the official rules of behaviour and let us know which clan do accept it and which dont accept it; doing so every CW player will know how to do in such a case.
Now TGE will time me out no sooner Ill delay, nevermind for me its ok!!
But I raccomend one time again to have an official treaty with rules of behaviour and a list of clans/players who wants such rules.

bye

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Mon Jun 27, 2005 2:52 pm 
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guderian27 wrote:
Just due to a time out

It's not just simple timing out. Due to this all other games of Tywer have no any sence in this sector.
Our clan at present moment has many delayed games with yr good Clan mates. Should we also finish them? No, it's not our way. Cause it's mutual fighting, not individual. If we finish expired games, all these ones will not be have any pleasent for yr good Clan. It's a fact - some of yr Clan mates make turns on time, but the mostly part do delays. If we time out the games with last ones, all yr good Clan will lose appropriate sectors. But I see many intelligent, kind & punctual players from yr esteemed Clan, even if some of them make just terrible delays. I'm enjoying playing with them. This is important. Of course, the major thing is result of game - to win or lost. The timing out is also some variant of victory but (once again, playing mutual CW games) it's not very good (I'd say it's intolerable) variant like you've done.
Yr Clan mates are much more lenient then you & they care not only about themselves.

P.S. I'm sure there are many situations like present one waiting for us in the future. So, to avoid such problems, we all need to accept Maelstrom's suggestion (let it be already Time out etiquette rules). May be it's necessary to rectify these ones a little bit, may be there are other ideas. Let's talk about this!

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Mon Jun 27, 2005 3:45 pm 
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Drakon
dont say Im not lenient.....ask to NWO players, ask to Xantrul about it....etc etc.

I totally accept Maelstrom's rules of fair play but, in general, I need to know if my opponent do accept these rules cause I will always wait for his turns while Im not sure at all he will wait for me....anyway we can talk about it together & try to remove this tedious problem :wink:

regards

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Mon Jun 27, 2005 4:02 pm 
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I've posted here that it's good rules about Time Out Etiquette and sent message with link to all active players of our Clan. Additionally, I've posted it in our Forum, so our players know this rules and kept it.

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Mon Jun 27, 2005 4:08 pm 
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To support CW fair playing we need to follow strongly some rules. The best way to accept Maelstrom's ones as they are.
After that many such questions & situations will be out of discussing...
That's all we need!

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue Jun 28, 2005 6:58 am 
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I'm not sure we can make these Etiquette suggestions actual rules. There is no way to enforce it. I think if all clans agree to follow them we'll police ourselves. Speaking for NWO, we officially accept these points with all players who agree to follow them.

Perhaps this is something where the clan war moderators could send a message to all players to point them to this topic, and have all clan leaders pass on these ideas as well.

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NWO website:
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 Post subject: The famous last words
PostPosted: Sun Aug 14, 2005 5:15 am 
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Tiger wrote:
I've posted here that it's good rules about Time Out Etiquette and sent message with link to all active players of our Clan. Additionally, I've posted it in our Forum, so our players know this rules and kept it.

Tywer has finished our game n°70708 on clanwar with a timeout......

Congratulations to this Champion of Correctness

ps. I dont think I 'll respect Timeout Etiquette rules with this kind of player

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 Post subject: Re: The famous last words
PostPosted: Sun Aug 14, 2005 5:32 am 
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guderian27 wrote:
I dont think I 'll respect Timeout Etiquette rules with this kind of player

What do you want? One must reap as one has sown!!!
You know, I also could time you out several days ago at Crateus but I didn't it. If you enforce these Time out rules - in this case why you haven't noticed me, a?
Finally I'd like to say that it's quite personal choice of each one. You've made yr choice with Tywer...
:wink:

P.S. Pls read this again
Tiger wrote:
we don't count that our agreement with this "Time Out Etiquette" will be applied to guderian27.

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sun Aug 14, 2005 5:51 am 
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guderian27 wrote:
Now TGE will time me out no sooner Ill delay, nevermind for me its ok!!

After these words the present situation seems very funny!!!
:lol: :lol: :lol:

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PostPosted: Sun Aug 14, 2005 6:58 am 
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I repeat: No problem for me....but I dont wanna see any complaint if it happens to you from henceforth...bye :wink:

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