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 Post subject: Subscription questions and comments
PostPosted: Mon Apr 04, 2005 4:29 pm 
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I am a bit confused regarding subscriptions. Two issues seem to be associated with subscriptions:

1) Online play.
2) New game content, such as new maps.

Question: Is it possible to play online with a friend (that is, we know each other's IP address, and need no "match finding" help) without a subscription? I suspect that the answer is "no".

Question: Is new game content available without a subscription? Perhaps the answer is yes, and a subscription fee is being justified by new development, but is not required to benefit from new maps, etc.

It’s true that MA is a niche game. This is unfortunate, as it’s a much better game than many that are much more popular. It’s also true that the developers need a reasonable ROI. I think you should charge more for each copy of the game. You state that "retail price is fixed by retailer and publisher, not developer". In that case, the retailer should charge more per copy. Passing the buck this way just does not fly. I would certainly have been willing to pay more for the game. Subscription is another matter (although I certainly find fault with Scott_WAR’s unthinking comments). I might decide to subscribe because I like to support development of quality TBS games.

Mrakobes commented that most won’t play MA-D more than 4 months, but those who do should be willing to pay for ongoing support. This does not reflect my game playing habits. I will likely play MA-D for years to come. However, after the first couple of months, I will play much less frequently. A month or three might go by without me playing. Paying for a subscription if I average one game a month or so just doesn’t seem reasonable. I’d like to be able to play online (with a known friend), even if I only play a game every couple of months.

As for those people who stated that they would not pay a subscription for a turn based game: The game being turn based should not be the issue. The issue should be whether a persistent world is being maintained on servers on which the game is executed. In the case of MA, is a third party server even needed once a game begins? Considering the lack of random results, executing the game on a third party server does not seem necessary even if only to prevent cheating.

Obviously, another way to improve ROI is to sell more copies. Much easier said than done, obviously. It’s too bad that mindless quick-twitch crap seems to be more popular than quality games, such as MA.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Mon Apr 04, 2005 4:52 pm 
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Quote:
Question: Is it possible to play online with a friend (that is, we know each other's IP address,


There is no IP matching for online play, it is either LAN or quasi-play by email through the MAN servers.

Quote:
Mrakobes commented that most won’t play MA-D more than 4 months, but those who do should be willing to pay for ongoing support. This does not reflect my game playing habits


As I pointed out in a response to this statement by Mrakobes, he either doesn't have any idea what he is talking about or is being deliberately dishonest. There are plenty of strategy and other games that get people playing for years, these are known as "the good ones".

What is comes down to is a failure of vision on the part of the MA developers. Their decisions will actively drive away customers with this poorly thought out approach to online multiplayer. MA and Domination will remain niche games with very small player bases

Quote:
It’s too bad that mindless quick-twitch crap seems to be more popular than quality games, such as MA.


Very true.

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue Apr 05, 2005 1:03 am 
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Quote:
As I pointed out in a response to this statement by Mrakobes, he either doesn't have any idea what he is talking about or is being deliberately dishonest


listen..you..Matt-helm..i was around for more than 18 months and i look at people who play.alot of people were signing in for MA some had high ranks - and now where are all those people?left...i seen very little amount of people remained from current MA players after 4 months.
what you speak about other games...not fits here because those are games designed primarily for single-player...and occasional internet games.so yes i believe there people do play those games occasionally once in..yes this way it not works with subscriprion.But MA is designed for more intensive multiplayer gaming and as i see that majority enjoy this for 3-4 months - then leave.MA is free - no subscriprion.so in theory they can play endlessly.they dont.
You Matt Helm just came here few days ago knowing nothing and then you pretend that i am being deliberately dishonest? maybe you just dont have enough brains to measure and understand what i say?

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue Apr 05, 2005 1:58 pm 
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Mrakobes wrote:
Quote:
As I pointed out in a response to this statement by Mrakobes, he either doesn't have any idea what he is talking about or is being deliberately dishonest


listen..you..Matt-helm..i was around for more than 18 months and i look at people who play.alot of people were signing in for MA some had high ranks - and now where are all those people?left...i seen very little amount of people remained from current MA players after 4 months.
what you speak about other games...not fits here because those are games designed primarily for single-player...and occasional internet games.so yes i believe there people do play those games occasionally once in..yes this way it not works with subscriprion.But MA is designed for more intensive multiplayer gaming and as i see that majority enjoy this for 3-4 months - then leave.MA is free - no subscriprion.so in theory they can play endlessly.they dont.
You Matt Helm just came here few days ago knowing nothing and then you pretend that i am being deliberately dishonest? maybe you just dont have enough brains to measure and understand what i say?


I can understand what you say perfectly.

Perhaps the fact that few people stick around to play MA online is due to the qualities of MA and not games in general. I can show you forums where they have been playing the same online or multiplayer strategy games for years due to the inherent quality of those games (also due to the lack of a subscription cost as well). There are many games with hardcore long term fans who continue to enjoy those game and play them against other players, and this is well known in the general gaming community. If MA players regularly leave after 4 months then I'd say that the MA developers need to go back to the drawing board and see what they did wrong.

All that aside, what you are saying about the long term life of most games is incorrect and I think you know it.

It is my opinion that if Domination dumped the subscription plan and put in direct IP internet multiplayer the game would become on the the big hits of the year and would sell enough copies to make up the lost subscription revenue.

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed Apr 06, 2005 9:45 pm 
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Hardcore fans put no money in the pockets of the developers or publishers or anyone else.. why should they care if you're playing they're game 5 years from now, I mean its a job to them, they're not trying to make the world a better place, they're trying to pay rent... And don't give me that extended satisfaction yields long term customers crap.

Plenty of game companies have had an absolutely rabid fanbase and they tank anyway. Loyalty only extends to the single product... when was the last time you heard someone who was a rabid fan say, "yeah I knew the latest game <RANDOM>Company released was an utter turd, but they've released 3 great games with awesome free mp before that, so I bought it anyway, and told my friends to buy it". No, they hop on and scream about betrayal, driving off new players as they arrive... real loyalty there.

If long term commitment made one tiny bit of difference, all those sweet wargaming (and computer gaming) companies from the 80's would still be around today. Better to have a few players giving a little additional money than many players who give them *nothing* for decades to come. I wish they'd have charged more per month for the original MAN and released a non-bug-riddled Domination, myself.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu Apr 07, 2005 2:07 am 
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I'm not sure how any of that is relevant to the conversation. The point about long term play was in dispute of Mrakobes statement that no one played MP strategy games longer than 4 months. The statement about Domination being a hit is only concerned with this single game being more profitable with proper MP functionality gaining it wider acceptance and more immediate customers. No part of the discussion touched on long term profitability of a game company or the value of customer loyalty in the long term. I'm sorry, berhaps you need to re-read the thread?

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu Apr 07, 2005 4:40 am 
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while i am kinda bored by this matt helms unability to understand my words properly i will say
Quote:
show me ANY strategy game which you play for 4 months in row or more

key word is - in row.all the time.I also sometimes play some game for example Disciples 2 - then stop -for half year maybe - then play it a bit more...then stop again..but i dont need all the time
you also can cancel MAN subscription then come back after a year or so.
but somebody should stop all that whining somehow..
so if you Matt Helm are unwilling to subscribe - dont...nobody is forcing you.but why you even bother to spam the forum with those monotonous posts about subscription being an all-world evil or something.

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu Apr 07, 2005 9:38 am 
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The first guy up top pointed out how he was going to play for years to come, but off and on, and was trying to indicate that therefore a subscription wasn't very worthwhile, and hinted that maybe he'd be loyal to this company and pay the subscription. You had two posts where you stated a direct opinion on how to best earn revenue, In addition to making contensions about Mrkobes comments on how people play games.

I actually had something else to say, before I started having justify my own posts.

If you're not a fan of the subscription thing, which fine, I can understand, but you still want the additional content (assuming you have to pay subscription for it, which no one seems to know for sure yet?) You can probably just subscribe again when you get that 2nd interest in the game, and pick up all the old stuff for like a one month subscription 8bucks or whatever and then promptly cancel at the first opportunity. Don't even pretend like you mean to play it some more, just hop on grab the maps and go. Its not very nice to the devs, but I did that with Jumpgate basically, when they threw the new content out there, just replayed for a little bit, then ditched it for good. Theres the chance they might go under, but that just increases the odds of getting stuff for free.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu Apr 07, 2005 1:44 pm 
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Quote:
key word is - in row.all the time.I also sometimes play some game for example Disciples 2 - then stop -for half year maybe - then play it a bit more...then stop again..but i dont need all the time


Sorry, there are lots of games that people play constantly. The play by email crowd playing Age of Wonders, Civ2 and Civ3 (just three examples I was able to quickly grab) has new games starting all the time with players who have been playing consistantly since the game was released years ago. There is really no truth in any of your assertions about game longevity or player habits.

If those game have dedicated MP gamers playing those games all the time years after release the MA devs need to ask themselves why it isn't happening for their own game.

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sun Apr 10, 2005 2:11 pm 
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But what are you getting for your money? MAN promised a map every month, and that didn't happen. Why on earth would you pay them monthly now??

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PostPosted: Sun Apr 10, 2005 2:36 pm 
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Quitch wrote:
But what are you getting for your money? MAN promised a map every month, and that didn't happen. Why on earth would you pay them monthly now??


As far as I know, you'll get promissed new maps with MAPRN.

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sun Apr 10, 2005 2:59 pm 
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how do we know they'll keep their promise this time round?

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sun Apr 10, 2005 3:18 pm 
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2 Quitch - btw - who ever "Promised" to make new map each month?
why do you think this was a promise
look here

http://www.massiveassaultnetwork.com/order.php


All planets for World Wars
Play World Wars on all 12 planets.


Naval units
Use Battleships, Destroyers, Carriers
and Naval Transports in World Wars.


No rank limitations
TRIAL players cannot go higher than Lieutenant.
Grow your career up to Colonel or General
and get accepted into the Elite Division of players.
Go further and become a Marshal!


Clan Wars & Tournaments
Join multiplayer team warfare.
Fight for your country and
get bonus ladder points in Tourneys.


Online stats & Career Center
Get access to detailed stats and your own
military history. Plan your further promotions.


that's all
after release they made 2 maps (emerald and brimston) for free download and four more for MAN.But there wasnt ever anything "promised" about making new maps _each_ month so devs cant be blamed for keeping up the promice.

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sun Apr 10, 2005 3:44 pm 
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taken from the news archive on man site, check bottom paragraph, i'm sure it's mentioned in other palces but cna't b bothered to find them

29 April 2004
New map "Crateus" released

The planet’s name is Crateus - it features a giant crater tightly packed with countries. In the center of the crater there is always-neutral high-economy country, and its conquest will be the main objective for both rivaling sides in World Wars. Numerous smaller craters and lifeless ridges will provide additional environmental obstacles leading to new tactical challenges.

Crateus was designed with live player deathmatches in mind, and it will open up new dimensions of Massive Assault Network’s Secret Ally-based warfare.

Wargaming.net will keep releasing a new Massive Assault Network deathmatch map each month.

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sun Apr 10, 2005 7:54 pm 
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Actually Mrakobes when I signed up about a year ago part of the subscription features was 1 new map per month. So actually everyone that signed up when this was part of the subscription could have got them for breach of contract, of course that would have done a lot...find a court of law that could have done anything about it.

But then it really didn't matter to me as I had plenty of maps to play. It just would have been nice for them to say we screwed up by offering this and we won't be able to do it.

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Mon Apr 11, 2005 3:10 am 
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yea was sure it said that in the subscription too, guess they quietly removed it when they realised they couldn;t do it. sneeky ;)

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PostPosted: Wed Apr 13, 2005 4:01 pm 
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Inexcusable in my book. They are wide open for breach of contract.

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