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Time Limits in Tournaments
http://www.massiveassault.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=37&t=20789		 Page 1 of 2
Author:  ravermeister [ Fri Aug 10, 2007 2:23 am ]
Post subject:  Time Limits in Tournaments
This poll is to determine what the larger opinion is on the suitablity of a chess clock in a tournament. I am interested in what other players think.
Author:  guderian27 [ Fri Aug 10, 2007 3:10 am ]
Post subject: 
In my opinion chess-clock should be always fixed in relation with the size of the maps.
In any case, the last 2/3 days should be free (without chess clock).
Author:  Tiger [ Fri Aug 10, 2007 3:44 am ]
Post subject: 
I agree that chess-clock should be equal map size. To play on Sea Switzerland during 2 weeks could just some very active players.
Author:  ChrisCraven [ Fri Aug 10, 2007 11:22 am ]
Post subject: 
I would like to see a chess clock that can give a grace period before it started ticking off. I think 12 hours would be sufficient to offset any timezone issues. Then you would have 1-3 weeks depending on the size of the map.

Of course since we don't have a clock that can do that I think the current system is best 2 weeks, 3 weeks, 4 weeks, depending on the size of the map.
Author:  Captain X [ Sat Aug 11, 2007 3:52 am ]
Post subject: 
thanks, Ravermeister for this overdued poll :)

it seems many people dont have a problem with the time-clock like it is. dont they have a real life? ;)

As I said in previous posts, the chess clock with the first 12-24h free is the fairest for working people of different time-zones. it seems though most people are ok like it is, guess I have to live with it.

In one game its zhe 7th turn and I have as usually used about 6 of my days playing as often I can. My opponent used 10 hours do far!!!
hope that speaks for itself...
Author:  ravermeister [ Sat Aug 11, 2007 6:41 pm ]
Post subject: 
I thought of a good compromise

I know that the biggest problem is the uncertainty of how long a game could take without the chess clock - so - how about this for a solution.


The chess clock is modified to have the first 24 hours free. Then you give each side 7 days extra on the clock. If each player always does his turn within 24 hours - then the problem is that the game could go on forever.

My solution - also add in a feature of "Maximum Turns" - For the current map - Pitor is going to beat me in 10 turn flat. So for a map like Eden - if you put in a 20 turn limit and then use the following rule

If the game is within 20% each way - its a draw
If the one player is above 20% - he gets the win
If a player runs out of time - he loses.

Using this method the maximum game time is as follows

If you get to 19 turns without using time - then thats 38days then the last player does not make a turn at all - add another 7 days - so you get 45 days maximum game time.

For the current chess clock - and a map like eden - we should have had 3 weeks - which works out at a maximum game time of 42 days - which is about the same

This would then be a much fairer system - everyone can do their turns once a day without fear of being beater by a player with more time than skill.

This is supposed to be a skill based game - that is what sets it appart from other games - if I wanted to play a game where time counts for more than skill I would play world of warcraft.

I know that the maximum time limit - a definiticv end time for a pool was the major drawback for removing the chess clock - I have thought hard on this and I hope the above solution - if acceptable - is easy to implement.
Author:  Rextrent [ Thu Aug 16, 2007 8:29 am ]
Post subject: 
Why the holy freakin' hepsibah would this bogus chess clock of two weeks be so acceptable? :roll:
The poll is not being visited by enough standard players.
The highly disciplined Russians and their ilk are stacking the deck, so to speak, in favor of the 2-week chess clock.
I agree with the above player who asks rhetorically, "What about players who have a life?!"
After considering this very question I also must recognize that my position in this ranking is not that important to me. It is something I want to maintain but I gotta be realistic and let it go.
This game is totally great, and most of the community are great fun and a pleasure to "know".
So there.
See you on the battlefield! 8)
Author:  storm440 [ Tue Aug 21, 2007 12:14 pm ]
Post subject: 
i would go for a system that has the 24 hour "free" period--if you make your turn in that time there is no movement on the clock--then make the clock 1 week--this way if someone goes away for a week end or can not play for a few days the are not in danger of being "timed out" as long as they keep playing every day after that. As for the number of turns--i would not like to see that--there are many games that are past that 20 turn limit that ravermister suggested so if there was going to be a turn limit it would have to be higher --probably 30 for the currant map and even higher for bigger maps. If the turny takes longer but is more fun to play what is the down side to that?
Author:  Neoff [ Tue Aug 21, 2007 2:37 pm ]
Post subject: 
2-weeks chessclock is acceptable for Clanwar.
1 week chessclock + 1 day for each turn after third or fifth turn :) - that is acceptable for short tournaments like this.
For long-time tournaments i would prefere Shadow system (see neighbour topic)

For hardcore players i invited new blitz system:
5 minutes for turn, Sea Switzerland. 1 day chessclock ;)
Author:  storm440 [ Tue Aug 21, 2007 3:01 pm ]
Post subject: 
5 min for sea swiss? just exactly what would be the idea behind such a game? there is no way anyone is going to make any intelligent moves in such a game past turn #1. I really doubt that once 5 or 6 countries are deployed a person can, even without thinking at all, move all of his units, create new units and deploy additional countries. But, to each his own, i'm sure you will find others that love this idea--just don't consider them to be "hard core" players just because they find this idea appealing.
Author:  Neoff [ Tue Aug 21, 2007 3:37 pm ]
Post subject: 
Joking :) ok, 15min blitz. We play with Buktop, it was very funny.
Author:  storm440 [ Tue Aug 21, 2007 4:43 pm ]
Post subject: 
AHH, a joke, i should have known :oops:
Author:  ChrisCraven [ Wed Aug 22, 2007 12:20 am ]
Post subject: 
storm440 wrote:
If the turny takes longer but is more fun to play what is the down side to that?

The problem with this is when all other games have been completed and everyone has to wait for that extra long game to complete. What fun is it for anyone but the 2 playing the game? Absolutely, none.
Author:  ravermeister [ Wed Aug 22, 2007 3:06 am ]
Post subject: 
The 20 turn limit was just a suggestion

I know most of my games were clearly decided within the first 10 turns (both ways).

By the end - the last 3 or 4 turns were just going through the motions - normally I would have surrendered the games I was losing - but with the stupid count back system- I had to try to extend every game (and so did everyone I was playing) - very annoying. ( :x I am only bitter because I will probably miss out on making the next round even tho I only lost 3 games total in the tournament (and 2 of those were against Pitor :o ). I guess thats the fun part of the pool system.

Anyway - a game that is at +/- 10% is a draw in my books (after 20 turns). If you can;t get an advantage in that time - then its a stalemate. 1 point each - bring on the next game - no one has to wait for anyone.
Best of both worlds I think (better than a straight 2 week clock anyway
Author:  storm440 [ Wed Aug 22, 2007 6:31 am ]
Post subject: 
i would have to agree with you, after all we have to keep in mind that this is not a standard game but a turny game and, as such, for the sack of everyone playing different rules need to be in place. The 20 turn draw if the % is still very close really makes sense.
Author:  ravermeister [ Fri Aug 24, 2007 2:47 am ]
Post subject: 
Most games in chess - with the Grand Masters involved - usually end in a draw. I can imagine the next round will be very intersting, especially in the top pool.


My guess for the final 6 is

Pool A - Aghepu (Cptx says he can not play next round)
Pool B - Neoff
Pool C - Pitor
Pool D - Alliance
Pool E - Rocklizard
Pool F - Tiger

All of those players play regularly so the time limit should not be a problem.

I think it will come down to Pitor and Aghepu - but with the right layout anyone can win. (I picked those 2 because they kick my ass the hardest).

The 2nd 6

Pool A - Optis
Pool B - Retrent / Snakedad
Pool C - Tywer
Pool D - Nahkor
Pool E - Rimus
Pool F - No Idea.....?????

I think the second pool will be a close affair with SA layout having a lot to do with the final result.

GOOD LUCK to all the players that made it through to the next round

RAVERMEISTER.
Author:  Tiger [ Fri Aug 24, 2007 4:55 am ]
Post subject: 
ravermeister wrote:
Cptx says he can not play next round


I didn't get any message about it.
Author:  ravermeister [ Fri Aug 24, 2007 7:00 am ]
Post subject: 
Better check with him - its something he said in a chat - but if he has not told you then he may still play? Sorry if I have got it wrong.
Author:  Captain X [ Tue Aug 28, 2007 12:31 pm ]
Post subject: 
dont worry ravermeister, I just wanted to give it a 2nd thought before emailing tiger.

I am interested too of the outcome. Maybe the finalists will put the replays into the forum, there will be some formidable matches, I am sure.

guess there will be quite some draws though, where each player wins the PL-game.
Author:  ravermeister [ Wed Aug 29, 2007 2:15 am ]
Post subject: 
Now Nahkor is out as well..... so far here are the casualties of the timing system.



Morn (ranked 5th) - Pulled out of the last round

ShodowD - Pulled out after round 1 - gave in to the pressure of having a real life

Storm440 (ranked 7th) - didn't even attempt to play with chess clock (maybe the smartest out of all of us :)

Cptx (ranked 9th) - I think that some of his games were lost because of time? Not sure but he was definatly having problem with finshing his games in time.

Last and not Least - ME - Ravermeister (ranked 13th) - Not good enough to make it to the last round - but would have pulled out anyway (to prevent a divorce).....



To make it an interesting final round I suggest you make it 4 weeks - Its not like you are going to have to wait for anyone - if you win all your mateches - then you win... there is no next round.
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